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Farming Subsidies Go To Uribe Supporters

The tv campaign looked nice: poor country farmers would be able apply for farming subsidies from a giovernment institution to better their crops, machinery etc. The humble indigenous and African faces were nowhere in evidence, though, when the monies were allotted: instead there were many members from prominent Atlantic coast families, Vives, Lacouture etc who were the recipient of huge amounts of farming subsidy. Many (perhaps most) of the recipient were also staunch Uribe supporters and campaigners for his re-election.

Sometimes I don't know if I should laugh or cry when reading these things about Colombia.

By Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) on Oct 2, 2009, 08:01 in Politics & the war.

BUSHWICK-BILL says on Oct 2, 2009, 08:10:

Yes it looks like this huevon will stay 4 more years...... This is a shame for Colombia...... soy chavista.....

CARDIFF SOUL CREW.......

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 2, 2009, 08:16:

Actually, my intention here was NOT to attack Uribe, but rather the CORRUPTION. These subsidies were allocated by his minister of agriculture, also called "Uribito", a detestable and corrupt oligarch.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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viajero123 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 2, 2009, 08:29:

Not defending this shameful event at all, but who in Europe and in the US receives those billionaire agriculture subsidies?

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BUSHWICK-BILL says on Oct 2, 2009, 08:30:

Desi. The corruption comes from Uribe. He makes politic just for the riches. The poor ones live under very hard conditions here. No jobs and the salaries are bad... The only thing uribe has done is that the country is safer... But the main problems are the same or are even bigger. Chavez tries to change the society. I think this is the way Latin America has to go. The way Chavez goes.

CARDIFF SOUL CREW.......

2 funny, 1 helpful.

viajero123 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 2, 2009, 08:39:

This is one reason why Santa Marta and the coast in general will never change, not even in the mid-term.

For those speaking Spanish, read this 2008 article by Fajardo where he explains some of this better http://www.elespectador.com/impreso/nacional/articuloimpreso-el-rezago...

These families are the same ones that have always ruled Santa Marta and the Magdalena department, that have owned most of the businesses there, that have alledgely supported the paramilitaries of the region. And what is the result, according to Fajardo's article:

The 3 last mayors of Sta. Marta are in jail as well as 80% of the department's congressmen are either in jail or "libertad condicional" for supporting paramilitaries, buying votes, corruption, etc...
The consequences are clear, anafabetism in the coast is double the national average, GDP per capita is 62% the national average, GDP growth over the last 50 years has averaged 1% whereas in the rest of the country has been 2%,

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viajero123 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 2, 2009, 08:43:

Bushwick, corruption does not come from Uribe. Corruption has been in this country for ages and will remain in this country for a long time after he leaves. He just hasn't done enough against it. It is ingrained in Colombian culture. And btw, if we all went the way Chavez is going, we would all be going down a cliff soon enough. If you think Venezuela doesn't have as much or even worse corruption than Colombia then you don't know what you're talking about.

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jman73 says on Oct 2, 2009, 08:57:

Bushwick I don't believe that Chavez is the answer but I do agree with everything you said about Uribe. While he has made the country much safer he has done little if any to improve the overall economic situations for the majority of Colombians. The rich have gotten richer, and the poor continue on as usual.

It is very easy to see how socialism & communism can take hold in countries like Venezuela, Colombia, and others. Continue to elect corrupt politicians that only serve the interests of the wealthy ruling elite, do little if any to help the poor by keeping wages low and not improving their overall standard of living etc. and after a while socialism stars to sound pretty good to the masses.

"Anyone who thinks that Colombia is a gastronomical paradise needs to have their head examined." jman73

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 2, 2009, 09:01:

I'm not an expert in farming subsidies, viajero, but I'm pretty sure a corruption scandal this size would make governments fall in the frozen North Country.

The EU farming subsidies have been going to every small-time farmer who has applied for them.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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BUSHWICK-BILL says on Oct 2, 2009, 09:11:

Desi. If you have to choose between Chavez and Uribe. For which one you would vote?

CARDIFF SOUL CREW.......

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 2, 2009, 09:26:

I can't imagine myself in that situation, Bushwick_easy_Tone. Probably stay home that day. I COULD vote for Uribe if I knew he'd get rid of that bunch of neoliberal, elitist, incompetent advisors he likes to surround himself with.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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viajero123 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 2, 2009, 09:30:

Desi, I understand how in Europe there is much more srutiny over who gets the subsidies. I also understand that small farmers in Europe are probably a lot bigger than small farmers in Colombia. But those farmers throwing away litres of milk in Belgium who received EU subsidies and were protesting over the price of milk sure were not small farmers for sure. I'm pretty sure that big farmers around the globe are the ones receiving the big chunks of subsidies but as yourself, I'm no expert in agricultural subsidies. And then again, the EU doesn't have the same scale of inequality as Colombia.

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Rocco81 says on Oct 2, 2009, 09:31:

Desi, can you get rid of Bushwick_easy_Tone? It is very apparent he has mutliple handles and only trolls around to start trouble and preach about Chavez. It is of course his right to think what he wants, but its the same over and over and over.

Sic semper tyrannis

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viajero123 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 2, 2009, 09:33:

Europe aside, this type of shameful distribution of subsidies is the reason why countries in Latin America can fall so easily on populist types like Chavez. If the Latin American rulers had taken the time to work harder on solving the inequalities and invested more on quality education over the decades we wouldn't have any Chavez, Evos, Ortegas, Correas or Kirchners. Maybe we would have probably only had Uribe I, no Uribe II and certainly no Uribe III.

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 2, 2009, 09:39:

Rocco, he's just being a little boring. There's no rules against that. I can get rid of his other handles (they're probably already deleted) but Uribe is fair game just as much as Chavez:)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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BUSHWICK-BILL says on Oct 2, 2009, 09:43:

I am not tone or easy. I am bushwick bill and I live in Colombia. You not. So I have the right to say what I want to say......

Desi; if you have to choose between Uribe and Obama for who do you would vote?

CARDIFF SOUL CREW.......

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 2, 2009, 09:49:

Probably Obama.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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BUSHWICK-BILL says on Oct 2, 2009, 10:14:

Desi if you have to choose between Uribe and Gadaffi. For which one you would vote?

CARDIFF SOUL CREW.......

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 2, 2009, 10:18:

Uribe no doubt

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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BUSHWICK-BILL says on Oct 2, 2009, 10:20:

Desi for who you would vote if you can choose between Uribe and Gandhi?

CARDIFF SOUL CREW.......

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makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 2, 2009, 10:32:

Bill
you should now that Chavez is much more corrupt like Colombia. Colombia is 51 Venezuela is 165 from 181.

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 2, 2009, 10:34:

I can't answer that question. Gandhi was one of those larger-than-life figures but I'm not sure if his policies would've worked in Colombia.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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BUSHWICK-BILL says on Oct 2, 2009, 10:34:

Makopp from where do you have this numbers?
I have a question is this the truth what El Sapo wrote that you are from Germany?

CARDIFF SOUL CREW.......

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BUSHWICK-BILL says on Oct 2, 2009, 10:39:

Desi for who do you would vote if you can choose between Uribe and Usain Bolt and Cristiano Ronaldo?

CARDIFF SOUL CREW.......

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Rocco81 says on Oct 2, 2009, 11:17:

Haha ok finally Bushwick is funny...

Sic semper tyrannis

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makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 2, 2009, 14:28:

bill
transparency.org, If I`m german? Check it out.

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turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 2, 2009, 14:42:

"Farming Subsidies Go To Uribe Supporters"

"Many (perhaps most) of the recipient were also staunch Uribe supporters and campaigners for his re-election."

The title of this thread is misleading and bad intentioned, you are saying that the money went for Uribes supporters and with that just trying to give him a bad name, but then you say on your post that many of the people who got the money were Uribes supporters, not all of them, so why not to change the tittle to a apropiate less biased name like "wealthy families received subsidies ment for the poor".

It would have been a great thread, but i cant stand when people change things to their like just to foolish others.

BTW do you have statistics that show that his supporters were the ones who received the money? the fact that millions of poor colombians who support Uribe didnt get the money means his supporters werent the ones who receive it, but wealthy families, that is different.

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Oct 2, 2009, 14:52:

Turnmeon, that was what the reporter said in the video clip. Not just wealthy families, but families who support Uribe's campaign. The families and the recipients were all singled out with names full last names and the amount of money they received. Not all the families were from Santa Marta either, at least two were from Valle del Cauca (Holguin Sardi one of them, very influential family from Cali). I do not consider the title misleading: it points to a very definite direction: it's always the same people from the small elite that do each other favors and it can be trailed all the way to the presidency of the nation.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Costeña says on Oct 2, 2009, 15:14:

PALANCA , URIBE IS CORRUPT

Why did you come to Colombia ?????

2 funny, 1 helpful.

makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 2, 2009, 15:24:

costeña
why is Uribe corrupt can you give a clear example when y where uribe was corrupt.

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turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 2, 2009, 15:32:

Desi1 show me a proof that this has something to do with Uribe handling money to his supporters....now, i bet familias en accione also goes to Uribe supporters, mmm subsidio de la tercera edad tambien? proofs mi querida Desi, proofs.

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Costeña says on Oct 2, 2009, 15:51:

makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 2, 2009, 15:24 (today): flag

costeña
why is Uribe corrupt can you give a clear example when y where uribe was corrupt.

VISIT CHOCO

Why did you come to Colombia ?????

1 funny, 1 helpful.

makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 2, 2009, 16:04:

costeña
what he was getting from there?

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romy says on Oct 2, 2009, 17:21:

Corruption in Colombia takes 4 billion pesos yearly
http://www.cambio.com.co/portadacambio/848/6245647-pag-2_4.html

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makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 3, 2009, 04:24:

romy
and how much i n Venezuela? 20 billon?

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romy says on Oct 3, 2009, 07:43:

It doesn't really concern me, you can go and look it up

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Dolfi says on Oct 5, 2009, 01:06:

If there is a bad thing, the mere fact that there are things in the world that are even worse, doens´t make the bad thing good or even acceptable. This is the kind of argument used by people who don´t want the bad things to change.

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romy says on Oct 5, 2009, 01:33:

1 No juzguéis, para que no seáis juzgados. 2 Porque con el juicio con que juzgáis, seréis juzgados, y con la medida con que medís, os será medido. 3 ¿Y por qué miras la paja que está en el ojo de tu hermano, y no echas de ver la viga que está en tu propio ojo? 4 ¿O cómo dirás a tu hermano: Déjame sacar la paja de tu ojo, y he aquí la viga en el ojo tuyo? 5 ¡Hipócrita! saca primero la viga de tu propio ojo, y entonces verás bien para sacar la paja del ojo de tu hermano.

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viajero123 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Oct 8, 2009, 10:26:

Uribe just ordered the Ministry for Agriculture to seek to recover all the monies of these programmes because they went through legal loopholes to get more subsidies than the maximum limits.

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