PBH / About PBH / Forums (active)

Funny/Ignore button - and hopefully a little bit more...

As Whitewidow queried: In the past, the feature to be notified (or not) was available - has NJC removed it? (ie. deciding not to receive any notification from PBH)

The "Funny/Helpful" buttons are basically just "fun" features.

The "Funny" button was originally meant for members to highlight a comment that they thought was genuinely funny (i.e. humorous and entertaining). Now, it is used as a means to express : "I don't agree with you - you're talking nonsense).

The "Helpful" button was originally meant for members to highlight a comment that they thought was genuinely helpful. Now, it is used as a means to express: "I agree with you".

It's amazing to see how most members still don't realize (or, even worse, don't accept) that PBH is NOT a democracy.

We're all participating in Peter's own private virtual world. By definition, participation in anything should entail accepting its own rules - which are clearly defined. If you play a board game such as Monopoly, you have to accept its rules – if you don’t wish to, then you’re free not to play.

Yet, a few members still spend more time criticizing the PBH rules than having anything positive to contribute on this board.

My first and immediate reaction would be to ask: If you don’t like the rules, then don’t play.

Some members are persuaded that if they can “vote” on issues, then the rules should be changed.

This is the very definition of demagogy.

History has already proven that majorities could be (and are often) wrong.

Most significant historical changes were implemented by people who, at the time, went against the grain: Galileo, Leonardo de Vinci, Joan of Arc, Socrates – and many more). It’s always dangerous to go against the grain without support… But how many of them were eventually proven right?

PBH is not about popularity. It’s NOT about how many friends you have and how many users you can gather to support your own point of view.

PBH is about being genuine and sharing experiences.

Think about this: How many “absolute” things are there in Colombia? Most of our own experiences are by definition “relative“ – if only because they only happened to us (hence they are subjective).

As I recently saw in another thread about banking in Colombia, there are no clear conclusions to be drawn. One poster will be happy about a bank whilst another will be thoroughly unhappy about the very same bank. Different experience among different persons. Yes, the usual (and expected?) reaction from those so-called “experts” is to dismiss anything which they disagree with (or don’t know about). As if new ideas, new inputs or different perceptions of things bothered them.

Same thing I witnessed in another thread about child exploitation in Cartagena: A couple of posters posted a few recent pictures (which they took) showing there were apparently no children exploited in this specific event. They then immediately drew the conclusion that child exploitation didn’t exist in Cartagena. This kind of extrapolation borders on sophism. Just because they didn’t see anything wrong on a few (or even many) occasions, they extrapolate that everything is fine in Cartagena.

This kind of blinkered attitude doesn’t help any one. As I posted: ‘'m not really responsible if a Google search for "Cartagena and sex tourism" yield 15800 results...”. Ignoring the problem isn’t informative, and pretending that it doesn’t exist doesn’t help. Whilst I understand it’s normal to try and defend the city you live in, it’s equally silly to ignore its problem.

True, there are also official texts of laws. Text of laws that are reassuring. And posters (like useful Gator) can be very helpful on those. Yet, Colombia being Colombia, as another poster wrote, everything is fluid and subject to individual interpretation.

So what should be done?

Here are a few suggestions:

PBH is not a personal forum where popularity matters. Most members don’t really care about demagogy. They care about sharing their own experience and obtain useful info.

So-called long-term expats don’t have a monopoly on information. Mainly because it’s been a long time since they actually did any “tramites” in Colombia –perhaps they have lost touch. It’s time they accepted new points of views and new “players” – this can only enrich PBH. Pity most of them still consider themselves as the ultimate experts on Colombia.

Amazing how, after all the posts here on PBH, most members still refuse (or are unable to accept) PBH number one rule: “Be friendly”. It is if that their posts are more acceptable if they get their buddies to agree with them. Another example of demagogy. “The more people agree with me, the more I am right”. It’s truly amazing how most obnoxious posters forger about the silent majority here on PBH.

PBH main problem, IMAO, is that it is split between a genuine informative forum and a social forum.

Some members use it as a genuine forum to get useful info and share their experiences.

Other members use it as a social forum to share whatever come to their mind. Just witness how most genuine threads are hijacked. Some members show a blatant lack of respect for the original poster and use his/her original thread to score points among themselves – this is truly pathetic. Example: http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/trip-report-to-cali/ A genuine thread, already cleaned by the mods, where a few posters preferred to score points among themselves rather than be constructive. What a lack of respect to the original poster and those members who stayed on topic in the thread!

Why is it SO hard to respect the rules of this forum?

Why is this so hard for some posters to be friendly (and thus respect/accept PBH Number one rule)?

Why is this so hard for some posters NOT to rise to the bait?

Why is it so hard for some posters NOT to be argumentative?

Why is this so hard NOT to belong to a “clique” to the extent that some posters are willing to forget about their own points of views just to support their buddies?

Why is it so important to score points on PBH? Why do some posters care so much about their PBH “image”?

The “Funny” and “Ignore” buttons were just implemented as a fun fixture. This is probably why there is NO toaster to be won in a popularity contest.

PBH is not (or shouldn’t be) about being popular. It’s about being genuine. And accepting the differences. No-one has a monopoly on Colombia (especially the so called experts ex-pats who refuse to share their sandbox and are unwilling to accept “new members”).

Every point of views count, however “silly” or overtly-optimistic they can be, appear to be, or prove to be.

Let’s every PBH thread to be judged on their respective merit, and not by/through a vociferous and selfish minority PBH members (15 at most) who self-appoint themselves as “experts” and try to hijack this forum.

By Darloup on Nov 6, 2009, 12:50 in About PBH Forum.

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 6, 2009, 13:17:

MC,

Just because you posted a few photos showing that children were not exploited in these VERY photos you posted doesn't mean/prove that the problem doesn't exist in Cartagena.

Why are you so bent ignoring the problem in Cartagena? You appear to be a clever chap and indeed are not responsible for Cartagena as a whole. Why the blinkers? More importantly, what are you trying to prove?

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

0 funny, 1 helpful.

pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 6, 2009, 13:20:

MC did acknowledge the problem existed in Cartagena, IIRC. I think he feels it's better solved by directing effort in the right places. The Bienestar Familiar campaign is clearly not focussing on the right place, thus it was ridiculed.

"this may seem a strange post but it is not...when in colombia men need to be aware that colombia women may try to be seductive and entice a travelling gringo to have sex with them..to be forewarned is to be forearmed..." -- pow wow

1 funny, 0 helpful.

theflatline says on Nov 6, 2009, 13:22:

How about a clueless button for those who only have been a short time in Colombia but feel as if they know everything about the country.

Legaleez for Complete Morons - A book for gringos in Colombia for who think they understand the nature of the law in a country where they cannot speak the language.

2 funny, 0 helpful.

geoff71 says on Nov 6, 2009, 13:28:

you could put a dislike button as well.. like there trying to do on facebook.. but that wont happen

one day at a time

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 6, 2009, 13:33:

HOLA! GGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!

Why is the OP allowed to instigate fights and controversy like this?? Oh, wait, his MO is to talk his trash, then he leaves the thread.....

Put Darloup out of his misery just like KY!!!! Or make him the moderator of the CHINA forum. THAT is where he belongs.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 6, 2009, 13:34:

Exactly, Pedro....can you explain it to Darloupe in a language he has the ability to comprehend the meanings of the posts? We know English is not one of those languages.

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

ranaquajo (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 6, 2009, 13:46:

"PBH main problem, IMAO, is that it is split between a genuine informative forum and a social forum."

... the OP may see this as the main problem, but i see it as the reason the site thrives ... i come here BECAUSE of the social interaction, without it the site would wither and die ... the technology behind the site is referred to as "SOCIAL SOFTWARE" ... if i just want information i've got plenty of places to go ...

“The people using your software, even if you own it and pay for it, have rights and will behave as if they have rights. And if you abrogate those rights, you'll hear about it very quickly.”

1 funny, 1 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 6, 2009, 13:47:

Clueless ONE!

some sorry ass mod wiped out my entire post, but i am glad you read it before the spineless person did.

YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT! THE TOPIC WAS THE ACCUSATION THAT THESE DANCERS WERE PART OF THE SEX TOURISM TRADE. WHICH IS AS FAR FROM THE TRUTH AS CAN BE!. YOU AND SOME OTHER TARDS INJECTED THE QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT CHILD EXPLOITATION EXISTED IN CARTAGENA!

SORT OF LIKE SOME OTHER POSTERS WHO GOT STUCK ON THE AGE 12, YOU GOT STUCK ON CHILD EXPLOITATION WHICH WAS NOT THE TOPIC.

AND LET ME TELL YOU A LITTLE ABOUT ME! I HAVE PUT MORE CHILD MOLESTERS IN JAIL AND TAKEN MORE CHILDREN AWAY FROM ABUSIVE ENVIROMENTS THAN YOU HAVE HAIRS ON YOU HEAD! SO TELL ME ABOUT BLINKERS? WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR CHILD ABUSE VICTIMS AND CHILD EXPLOITATION OTHER THAN POST STUPID COMMENTS ABOUT IT?

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

1 funny, 1 helpful.

tropicalshirt says on Nov 6, 2009, 13:47:

"PBH main problem, IMAO, is that it is split between a genuine informative forum and a social forum."

But Darloup, that is the main strength of PBH as well. I don't know the people on here for fok but I can tell that the humour and style of this forum is far better than any over dry informative only forum that does not capture the character of a country.

You make a lot of criticisms in this post and if you feel they deserved thats fine. But this post is a huge, long rant at people. I agree with you that winning the argument does not matter. Its only the fokking internet.

So maybe don't bother yourself with winning the argument?

1 funny, 0 helpful.

tropicalshirt says on Nov 6, 2009, 13:49:

Fok it! I just wanted to get in this post before it gets to 250 posts and you can never read it!

Darloup, you got to take the good with the bad in La Colombia!

1 funny, 0 helpful.

babygirl says on Nov 6, 2009, 13:53:

Agreed ranaquajo & tropical shirt.

MC. Don't waste your breath.

Best quote of the week... "should I be taking this pill with wine?" Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

1 funny, 0 helpful.

babygirl says on Nov 6, 2009, 13:59:

huskie, you have a point, but it's kind of like driving by a bad accident, you know you shouldn't look but you just can't help yourself hahaha. I'm guilty.

Best quote of the week... "should I be taking this pill with wine?" Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:17:

Huskie why did you edit your original comment? There was a lot of good stuff in it.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Haddeman says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:17:

He reminds me of a useless boxer who keeps getting knocked down but hasn´t got the sense not to continue getting up.A true masochist!

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:19:

SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS! I SPILLED A GLASS OF CHOCOLATE SYRUP AND MOTHERS MILK ALL OVER MY KEYBOARD, AND THE KEYS GOT STUCK! I THOUGHT I COULD SAVE ALMOST $1.90 OVER 25 GALLONS OF STORE MILK I CONSUME! I AM NOT SHOUTING!

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

1 funny, 1 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:20:

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 6, 2009, 13:17 (today): flag

MC,

Just because you posted a few photos showing that children were not exploited in these VERY photos you posted doesn't mean/prove that the problem doesn't exist in Cartagena.

Child exploitation in Cartagena does exist. i never said it didnt exist. I said the DANCERS are not part of the problem, as they are of age. what part of that doesnt compute in you skull?

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Robert Jorge says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:21:

Me too Babygirl - I just can't help myself. I'm weak.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

1 funny, 1 helpful.

Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:29:

Miguel, I read your comment and didn't touch it, because I wanted to respond to it . Well, it's gone now and I can understand why, too.

1) This CLUELESS person saw the pictures, read the article and went one step ahead, KNOWING VERY WELL that there were no underaged dancers in the troupes you photographed pointing out that AS A PRINCIPLE kids ought to be in their beds at night getting a good night's sleep not dancing or begging or performing any other kind of services to anyone, local, domestic tourist or international visitor at late hours of the night: In this, I agree with ICBF and Darloup.
2) This SPINELESS person has not been moderating this thread until now. You are being very offensive and antagonist and there's no reason for your aggressivity as you are (I HOPE) discussing the point of views, not the CHARACTER or the PERSONALITY of the poster. (See, I can also use capital letters:)
3)This CLUELESS person who got stuck on the age 12 was using that age only as an example and was WELL AWARE that there were no 12-year-olds in those photographs.

And last but not least, now I know why they say in Finland that COPS ALWAYS WORK IN PAIRS: one that can read and the other one that can write.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

0 funny, 3 helpful.

jimbo67856 says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:37:

Darloup, no offense but if you're so dissatisfied w/ PBH then whatcha doin here? I'm not saying it's perfect, and there are some worthwhile changes Peter could probably make. But you make it seem as though the site is wholly dysfunctional and uninformative. That's not true. If what you seek is an informative forum I suggest PBH is it; I've made a few friends on here who've given me some great, well thought out pieces of advice (and no, not the "all Colombianas are 'bad' people" bs, I mean legitimate advice on places to go, safety, etc.). One person even gave me their phone number so I could ask questions more easily. If that's not helpful I guess I question what your definition of helpful might be.

And while you bitch about personal attacks, your follow-up post after the OP specifically called out another PBH member. That, my friend, is what's known as hypocrisy.

Point is I think the reason you're experiencing problems on PBH is because of who you are, not b/c of who others are. That's not a slam necessarily, just my opinion given the tenor of your posts which always seem to lambaste others for personal attacks. Where I come from you can't personally attack others for the same thing you're currently doing. It's like saying I hate cigarette smokers, now pass me a cigarette.

Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it. ---- Thomas Jefferson

1 funny, 1 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:42:

WOW, lost in cyberspace by some PBH ghost villian...oh, wait, it was the UNKNOWN MOD!

The OP was not about child sexual exploitation in cartagena. The op was not about whether children should be in bed at night. The op was about these specifically identified colombian dance groups of which there are roughly 4- 5 of them currently, and how they should NOT be allowed to perform and support themselves. To add the age 12 and turn it into something which is not relevant is stupid.

Finland cops are representative of their citizens, from which their cops come from. Retarded Cops=Retarded Citizens. Yes?

Did you spill a cup o mothers milk and chocolate syrup on your keyboard too? Were you trying to save some pennies too?

Show me where i said 12 year olds should not be in bed late at night?

Show me where i said child exploitation in cartagena does not exist?

If it cant be shown where i posted anything like the two above scenarios, then those CLUELESS people need to put themselves in check, and STFU.....AnY TaKeRs?????

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:42:

"Miguel Clavo chose to protect his ideas about Cartagena's lack of children exploitation..."

Ok, as much as I hate to, I have to come to MC's defense on this one Darloup. Here I'll quote what he said, and if you still don't get what he is saying, then he might be right, and you just might be trying to provoke.

"Child exploitation in Cartagena does exist. i never said it didnt exist. I said the DANCERS are not part of the problem, as they are of age. what part of that doesnt compute in you skull?"

How is he denying in the quote above that it doesn't exist? His argument was with Desi's (by her own admition, as she acknowledged she had not been to Cartagena in a cow's age) uninformed contention that the dancers that were the original subject of the post, were under 12 years old and flounting their sexuality for money ar way past midnight.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:42:

And Darloup has the MODS HOOK LINE AND SINKER>>>>>>

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:44:

Darloup, Huskie had written a good post that she chose to take down, for whatever reason I can't understand.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

0 funny, 1 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:46:

Lets not confuse anyone with facts and reality, billy.....they cant handle the truth..

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

tropicalshirt says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:47:

What?

Huskies post was just edited from the large cut and paste of the OP???

2 funny, 0 helpful.

MaBarker says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:48:

I'm hoping babygirl is not correct. Yes, stopping to look at a car accident appeals to some of our senses. The emotionally disturbed guests abused on the Jerry Springer Show have received high ratings for the past 20 years, and still strong.

I'm hoping that if double-ignore was installed, threads and posters like this will evaporate into cyberspace, but I have my doubts. babygirl's suspicions may be correct.

I count just four troublesome, quarrelsome, argumentative posters at PBH at this time, including this OP that are responsible for the departures of some really great commenters.

How many similar, inflammatory threads by this OP have been deleted? Why is it allowed to stay?

I may have to give up on double ignore and support Miguel Clavo's GONG idea. Miguel is only kidding around, but that's a much better solution.

"I come to praise Darloup, not to bury him'............Julius Caesar

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:50:

Kidding around, Ma? no way jose, i want to swing the hammer on the GONG.....or the OP whichever comes first..jajajjaja

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Lisa Zee says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:52:

This fellow DARLOUP must be very important here in PBH, WOW..... Any time he post something it goes like wild fire, and the same people follow him ALWAYS. Congrats Darloup!. Can I have your autograph please?

Vive la vida y deja vivir!.

2 funny, 2 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:53:

I would like to continue this fine thread, but there is a Miss Colombia event in front of my office that starts at 6 pm, and i get in free! Dont be haters, now! Muchos besos for all my Clavistas, including the European ones!!!!!!!!!!!!!! jajajajajajjajaja

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:57:

Not a personal attack at all, Darloup.....I consider it a Statement of Fact.....you cant tell the difference in that either??

CLUELESS< CLUELESS

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:58:

BESOS Darloupp!

Dont Miss Me!

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

1 funny, 1 helpful.

Robert Jorge says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:58:

Clavo, is Sergio F. going to be there? Tell him hello.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel_Clavo says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:59:

I invited him but i dont think he will show......you know how he is......

RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

MaBarker says on Nov 6, 2009, 15:01:

Yes LisaZ, he is very important to the mods at PBH, let's ask them why.

"I come to praise Darloup, not to bury him'............Julius Caesar

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 6, 2009, 15:08:

Yes, I know it was edited from the op and yet it highlighted some very valid points. (tropicalshirt)
The questions were valid, it's the response I have trouble with.
Billy, mine was just an imaginary scenario: I was truly hoping it would not become real. I'm GLAD Clavo is confirming there is no such scenario in Cartagena. Clavo made me also undesrtand that it was better for children of Cartagena to dance on the streets than go to school.
Clavo, the comment about policemen working in pairs was just a dumb joke. You should be able to accept it as such. After all, you like to make fun of everybody else.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

0 funny, 0 helpful.

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 6, 2009, 15:15:

Lisa Zee says on Nov 6, 2009, 14:52 (today): flag

This fellow DARLOUP must be very important here in PBH, WOW..... Any time he post something it goes like wild fire, and the same people follow him ALWAYS. Congrats Darloup!. Can I have your autograph please?

I agree Lisa, that's why I think an Ignore button won't work on darloup, they will still get itchy to follow him heheh.

esto es la misma barca atravesando el mismo rio

bye I am off.

0 funny, 1 helpful.

scumbuster says on Nov 6, 2009, 15:23:

We need a clueless button with the funny/helpful

Tomas Jefferson “When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 6, 2009, 15:26:

Desi:

"yet it highlighted some very valid points"

We all know the process:

1) Most of the loud mouths (Huskie and Miguel Clavo among others) won't really discuss the points I raised here, preferring to attack the OP and, more importantly, trying to score points among their buddies (about 15 posters)

2) Some posters will PM me and tell me how they agree with me (thanks to you, BTW)

3) Most of the PPH posters won't really understand what is going on... That will be one more reason for them NEVER to become active members in this forum.

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

0 funny, 2 helpful.

billyb says on Nov 6, 2009, 15:31:

"Clavo made me also undesrtand that it was better for children of Cartagena to dance on the streets than go to school."

I thought he was trying to make you understand that it is better that these kids go to school ( and I hope you are still not trying to imply that they are 12 year olds, right?) with a full stomach than with an empty one. As he mentioned, and maybe you missed it, or chose to ignore, these dances take place around 6 PM (after school, and not past midnight), when no school kid in the world is asleep (another of your incorrect strawman points), the well off kids in Colombia are usually out playing or shopping with their friends at that time. The not so well off children have sevaral options at that time as well. They can either go and committ crimes to get money to feed themselves and or help out their families, they can stay at home and go hungry, or they could do as these young people (late teens, early twenties, again NO 12 year olds) are doing, and that is by making some money by dancing folkloric Colombian dances for tourists for tips. Anybody that sees anything wrong with that, needs help themselves.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Robert Jorge says on Nov 6, 2009, 15:37:

When I was 12, I was mowing lawns at 6pm and collecting aluminum cans at 6am. Look how I turned out. Nevermind, bad example.

Sergio probably will be in Mr. Bs later - oh, nevermind, he can't get in because he is moreno.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

1 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Nov 6, 2009, 15:41:

"Look how I turned out. Nevermind, bad example"

jaja, yeah, maybe you would have been better off dancing naked past midnight.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Nov 6, 2009, 15:42:

"Sergio probably will be in Mr. Bs later - oh, nevermind, he can't get in because he is moreno"

So is clavo.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

0 funny, 1 helpful.

Woodde says on Nov 6, 2009, 15:48:

ranaquajo (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 6, 2009, 13:46 (today): flag
i see it as the reason the site thrives ... i come here BECAUSE of the social interaction, without it the site would wither and die
----------------------------
Bingo! If you want strictly information create a wiki and HOPE people bother adding information. The people are what make this site worth visiting.

4/9/09

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 6, 2009, 15:48:

Billyb: Cartagena has a serious problem about children exploitation - whether sexual or not.

YOU know that, I know that, most PBH posters know it...

Now, Cartagena is certainly not the only Colombian city with this problem... (although the problem has been compounded with the recent afflux of foreigners).

What pisses me off is MC immediate gut reaction (although I appreciate he is trying to "protect" the city in which he lives).

His first reaction was to post some pix (that he took) of dancers in the streets apparently showing that, in the pix he took and posted, there was no children exploitation.

Fair enough (based on his pix for ONE event), but then why is he then extrapolating from his puny pix?

Why does MC seem incapable to accept that there is a genuine problem in Cartagena? As if his pix for a night could reverse the trend?

As if his pix were a true representation of the situation in Cartegena right now...

I really can't undertand his stubborness on that one...

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

0 funny, 1 helpful.

Robert Jorge says on Nov 6, 2009, 15:50:

Clavo ain't moreno. The dude is whiter than Casper the friendly ghost dropped in bleach. I'm dark compared to Clavo.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

1 funny, 0 helpful.

billyb says on Nov 6, 2009, 15:56:

So who is that morenito that poses as clavo at Tony Roma's?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

1 funny, 0 helpful.

Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 6, 2009, 15:58:

No, Billy.
He said it in no uncertain terms, that getting an education didn't pay off in Cartagena. That it was better for the poor children of Cartagena to dance on the streets than go to school, since most of the people with high school/university degrees didn't find a job anyway.
My choice for the children of Cartagena is to go to school, every morning, with a full stomach. Dancing is optional.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

0 funny, 2 helpful.

Robert Jorge says on Nov 6, 2009, 16:01:

Billy, that's Clavo's transvestite boyfriend.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 6, 2009, 16:07:

On that one Desi, I beg to criticize those posters who are apparently incapable to judge for themselves. Not the genuine loyal posters in search of an ideal and who are ready to "listen"

How many genuine PBH posters are genuinely interested to listen?

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

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Robert Jorge says on Nov 6, 2009, 16:26:

Desi, you are correct. I remember what you just said also. But, I am sure Clavo wasn't saying he thinks that it is an ideal answer. But if one is hungry, their family is dirt poor, and the kid has dancing and entertainment talent, what's wrong with making a few pesos entertaining? The acts don't take place at midnight. The kids are in school during the day. I have very limited experience in Colombia, and I have met people selling chiclets and taxistas who have college degrees. That was his point. And I agree with it.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 6, 2009, 16:31:

Robert Jorge, I have no problem with that.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 6, 2009, 16:35:

Miguel Clavo's reaction was: I went in the streets of Cartagena, I even took pictures, I didn't see any children expoited (see my pix), hence the problem doesn't not exist. I'll even get a few buddies of mine to confirm this.

Hardly some reliable information to draw a conclusion... Just Google "Cartagena Colombia children exploit" to get an idea of the overall problem in Cartagena...

Pretending the problem doesn't exist won't really help.

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

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Robert Jorge says on Nov 6, 2009, 16:51:

Loop, you are purposely leaving out other comments. Fine. Anyway, I can assure you Clavo isn't a liar nor is he trying to make a point - be damned the evidence. If there were kids in front of us that were in the sex trade, I can assure you that all Hell would break loose. He has clearly stated, ad nauseum that there is a problem. The street acts are not the problem. Why can't that get through your thick skull(s)? The point was clearly made, you insist on ignoring it, and the debate continues. What is pathetic, is that we are all on the "same side" so to speak: but because of your personal problems or refusal to see the truth, this continues to be a debate. A debate over nada. We all agree that kids shouldn't beexploited and in the sex industry. But like stupid dogs, some people insist on barking upthe wrong tree, based on a biased, lying, 2 bit reporter's article.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 6, 2009, 16:52:

Desi, why assume the kids are going to school in the morning? Somebody already raised the point of the afternoon school session, and I don't recall you responded to that.

Darloup, do you have a moment to join us in the "Win 10 USD" thread? I need your opinion on something. TIA.

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Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 6, 2009, 16:57:

While there are some schools with afternoon sessions it still remains to be more like the exception; the morning sessions being, of course, the rule.
Or?

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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billyb says on Nov 6, 2009, 16:57:

Darloup, he was just referring to these particular kids (the dancers), because if you carefully read what he said, you will have noticed that he mentions kids as young as 6 years old, selling chicklets and who knows what else, past midnight, and suggests that the gov bureaucrat involved in the OP should concentrate on those and not the dancers, who are NOT the problem. Hate to say it Dar, but on this narrow point you are being as obtuse as you are accusing others of being.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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babygirl says on Nov 6, 2009, 17:03:

Desi1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Nov 6, 2009, 15:58 (today): flag
My choice for the children of Cartagena is to go to school, every morning, with a full stomach. Dancing is optional.
******
My choice too Desi. Unfortunately it happens here in Canada too. It's a really sad state of affairs. We had an anti-poverty rally in Toronto (university kids). It was really sad to see the kids go to school hungry (when I worked in child care), no winter coat, boots, mittens. It absolutely breaks my heart. Kids babysitting kids while single moms or both parents work a night shift, that's another one that I've seen. It's a catch 22, the parents don't work, they can't pay the rent. Low paying jobs, you can't afford a babysitter. What can you do? It makes me angry but what happens when you have no choice to cover the basics?

Let's hope these talented dancers in Cartagena get scooped up by a talent agent, or maybe even a resort some where or cruise ship.

Best quote of the week... "should I be taking this pill with wine?" Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

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babygirl says on Nov 6, 2009, 17:08:

RE: MC, hope he doesn't mind this. I've had the opportunity to meet him in person. My personal opinion of him is that he's not insensitive to real issues of poverty and child exploitation (we'll keep using Cartagena as an example). I don't think anybody wants to see kids out working on the street weather it's the chicklet boys, dancers, whatever it may be, but what do you do when you have no choice?

Best quote of the week... "should I be taking this pill with wine?" Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 6, 2009, 17:16:

RJ: I'm genuinely happy Miguel Clavo now accepts there is a serious children explotation problem in Cartagena.

Many thanks for pointing out my shortcomings in my understanding of his point of view.

He deserves a public apology which I am glad to give him. I just wish he would stop posting these silly pix of dancers in Cartagena as if, on the whole, the problem didn't exist...

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

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billyb says on Nov 6, 2009, 17:18:

Well, they do have choices BG, choices which might be more palatable to some here than dancing for tourist tips I guess. The girls can be out hooking and they guys could be out mugging or selling drugs. Or they can just cowboy up and go to school hungry or otherwise, since most of us here have experienced hunger and found it to be an overrated concept.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 6, 2009, 17:22:

billyb: We're not talking about "choices". Choices are in an ideal word. We were talking about what actually happens in Cartagena.

Choices are irrelevant on that one.

Better to have tried and failed than having regrets all your life about what you MIGHT have missed

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billyb says on Nov 6, 2009, 17:28:

I was being sarcastic, as in they really have no choices, so they do what they do, which is a hell of lot better than what most do, and we, with our full bellies and somewhat less full wallets, have no business judging them.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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babygirl says on Nov 6, 2009, 18:12:

Darloup (☼Travelguide writer) says on Nov 6, 2009, 17:22 (today): flag
billyb: We're not talking about "choices". Choices are in an ideal word. We were talking about what actually happens in Cartagena.
Choices are irrelevant on that one.
*************
I don't even get that.

BB: I got your sarcasm. We really have no business judging anybody at all. Unless you've lived below the poverty line, you have no effing clue what it's like for that matter. Just try to imagine what it's like to be that desperate, and hungry, with nothing and I mean nothing, what wold you do to survive?

Best quote of the week... "should I be taking this pill with wine?" Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

1 funny, 1 helpful.